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By: Rajan

Rajan — Sun, 30 Jul 2006 23:58:57 +0000

Doc
You have really nailed it for me when you say
“Whatever marketing becomes will start, I believe, as a technology trend.”
I come from the geek/tech side of the world and used to think so far that it is weird or in fact even abominous for a someone from this side of he world to talk about what marketing would become.
But more and more I see that it is the folks from here who would be shaping up marketing.
Btw I read your OSCON post it is fantastic, I have a question why you have’nt include the ideas of pinko marketing from Tara who is just developed pinko as extension of cluetrain.
Also you could read some of my thoughts on Pinko through in a kind of conceptual framework here http://rajan.wordpress.com/2006/03/27/brilliant-tara-and-pinko-marketing/
Rajan

By: John Dodds

John Dodds — Wed, 26 Jul 2006 21:32:21 +0000

Doc,
I’m all for hyperbole, but I don’t think it helpsed your argument here since there seems to be a confusion of various people’s definitions of terms.
“Too much of marketing still acts as if the Net isn’t there, or has not caused profound and utter disintermediation of what marketing did for decades. That’s why many techies hate it.”
Absolutely correct in my opinion.
“Yet nobody really is isolated. That’s the key point here. What do you do in a world where everybody is essentially zero distance from everybody else?”
Yes. Our geographical separation may have been eliminated (though that is only for those on the right side of the digital divide and who choose to participate), but even then there is surely a separation based upon mindsets, worldviews, acculturation and biases?
“But The System is either breaking or broken, by the fact that The Net removes distance. It obviates org charts. It makes many “strategic” decisions ludicrous when practical alternatives are beyond abundant, and inherently unmanageable.”
Help! I have no idea what you’re saying here.

By: Doc Searls

Doc Searls — Tue, 25 Jul 2006 21:57:55 +0000

Hugh and friends, The context for that piece is a tutorial I'm giving today titled Open Source Clue Training: How to Market to People Who Hate Marketing. This is at OSCON: the O'Reilly Open Source Convention. As I said in that piece, I'm looking for feedback and advice. Not offering corollaries to Cluetrain (which is back up, by the way... sorry about that). I'm not talking about marketing rental cars here, or wine, or toothpaste or consumer electronics. I'm talking about conversing, relating, obtaining the interest of, and selling stuff to, techies. More specifically, techies whose metier is open source. Remember I'm writing this essay for Linux Journal. Our core readership is approximately 100% technical. These people, on the whole, dislike and distrust marketing. When they look for products, they want unvarnished truth and facts, as fast and directly as possible. When they make products, they want those products to be as useful as possible. Too often what they are told to make, by their own marketing organizations, turns out to be something that customers don't want, or is off-base one way or another. There is general agreement among technology creators that many mistakes could be avoided if makers and users were in closer touch. But the "strategic" imperatives of marketing often get in the way. Because strategic stuff tends to be detached. In more ways than one. In many companies it is not only bad form for the actual makers of technology to talk or relate with the actual users; it is also bad form for marketing to do the same. Because that's sales' job. Sales people are the ones who touch the customer. Not marketing. And certainly not engineers. The world has changed, but the bureaucratic templates haven't. The engineers themselves are also conflicted. To a large degree, they like their isolation. Yet nobody really is isolated. That's the key point here. What do you do in a world where everybody is essentially zero distance from everybody else? I'll cop to being hyperbolic in the way I put some of the points I made in the piece. But The System is either breaking or broken, by the fact that The Net removes distance. It obviates org charts. It makes many "strategic" decisions ludicrous when practical alternatives are beyond abundant, and inherently unmanageable. Too much of marketing still acts as if the Net isn't there, or has not caused profound and utter disintermediation of what marketing did for decades. That's why many techies hate it. "All technology trends start with technologists," Mark Andreessen (creator of Mosaic, the ancestor of Firefox) said. Whatever marketing becomes will start, I believe, as a technology trend. And I'm still looking for what I asked for in that piece: help with my assignment, which is coming up with stuff to say, and teach, this afternoon here in Portland.

By: Rich

Rich — Tue, 25 Jul 2006 06:55:57 +0000

Unfortunately, “the market for something to believe in,” is still too gullible. The help wanteds here for marketing/sales are full of blind ads looking for “closers” who want “potential six figure incomes” yet the ads don’t state what they’ll be selling (‘cept for a couple mortgage originators).
Selling things people want to believe in (but ultimately don’t) is still an extremely profitable business. The harder it is to sell whatever, the better it pays. That’s why most insurance offers HUGE commissions.
Perhaps my favorite discovery the past couple of years is Pandora. I love it. Everyone I introduce it to loves it.
Yet most times I mention it to someone new – even musicians who play our shop – people have never heard of it. I find that incredible.
I know I now look for new music by using Pandora. I know what I like, it suggests songs/artists that share the same DNA. That’s how I get to sample hundreds of artists, some of whom I’ll buy.
What’s the wine industry (or food or shoes or machine tools) version of Pandora?
And once you create it, how do you get people to use it?