Comments on: ama-zone: since when does wage-slave cowardice count as brains?

By: Blog_Chopper

Blog_Chopper — Mon, 03 Apr 2006 10:08:00 +0000

http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/724/doesroimatter4rp.gif

By: Joe Smith

Joe Smith — Sat, 01 Apr 2006 06:17:13 +0000

This blog is from a former Amazon employee and addresses this issue: http://tedder42.livejournal.com/79667.html

By: hugh macleod

hugh macleod — Sat, 01 Apr 2006 05:35:10 +0000

Rand,
“You can’t teach us anything, we’re Amazon”
reminds me of
“You can’t teach us anything, we’re Leo Burnett”.
Sound familiar?
I hope Amazon is listening.
[Rand and I worked at Burnett together, years ago.]

By: Rand

Rand — Sat, 01 Apr 2006 03:23:03 +0000

Hey Hugh... I attended the Lift Conference in Geneva via my computer a few nights ago. I thought yours and Robert's presentations were brilliant. I took careful notes and I'm off to buy Robert's book today. I think it's incredibly difficult for gargantuan companies ("let's name the company Amazon, then NOTHING can be bigger.") to subscribe to the idea that inviting and inspiring greatness all around you (through transparency and blogging conversations) is a great way to do business. "You can't teach us anything, we're Amazon" seems to be their mindset. Let me say, as the owner of a company the size of a speck of dust in a gnats eye, I am VERY inspired by yours (and Robert's) openess and ideas. And how cool is it that Robert actually works for Microsoft, a company that can cast a shadow over Amazon? Thanks for the inspiration. Next time I hope to actually be in Geneva. Or wherever.

By: Evelyn Rodriguez

Evelyn Rodriguez — Sat, 01 Apr 2006 01:37:31 +0000

I’ve been a CTO (of a very tiny dot-com so doesn’t compare) and my & engineers ALWAYS asked tough questions. When salesperson from vendor walked in the door with the sales engineer, we’d already done our homework, read the white papers, blah blah, and now were on to the real meat, not fluff, on exactly how this product was going to meet our specific needs and help our business. I’m not just on a buying spree to buy the next thing (and mind you this was dot-com days).
I didn’t see anything rude in Werner’s post itself; whether his demeanor, tone, body language conveyed that in person at the presentation, I have no first-hand knowledge but what others have said.
Also in giving blog examples, often companies aren’t necessarily looking for ROI numbers or general examples, but specific ways to use a blog in context of their business.
English Cut is a great example that I use to illustrate the power of blogging to a great artist friend of mine — but I wouldn’t use it for Amazon. The power of blogging is that I have read tons of posts offering great ideas that are tailored for Amazon’s context. Some have never been done before because they are great precisely for Amazon. (can’t find post had in mind; thought it came from Joe Wikert’s book publishing blog?)
How small companies and large approach blogging may bee different. I once wrote: “Small businesses often have the high-touch and informal trust built, but may lack broader credibility and stature. I met the owner of a new dive shop, Wet Zone, in Khao Lak, Thailand. Michael competes against the more-established large operators because of his tailored approach. He doesn’t have a blog, but he instinctly ‘gets’ the mindset as word of mouth is spread diver to diver in online diver forums so every customer experience counts. His reputation is what drives business, he said.
You don’t need to be a dive shop — most small biz is driven by reputation-spreading.
For larger companies, they have ‘name’ and credibility covered, but may lack likeability and a sense of a personal touch.”
p.s. I used to read Werner’s blog when I worked in enterprise software; so I don’t believe this was linkbait — it’s known in its own circles.

By: James Governor

James Governor — Sat, 01 Apr 2006 01:13:55 +0000

i dont know but if i was amazon CTO i would be kind of worried that when people outside the US click on an amazon url it takes them to the .com domain — if you are a .co.uk domain customer there is no record of your account. so in other words blog recommendations to amazon urls dont work internationally, as a few click scenario. sure i can remember the book or item in question — and go log into my own domain, search for it, and buy it. but thats the kind of barrier to commerce that will drop you sales over time. i cant tell you how many times i have said what book is that? oh i must buy that. then i end up not doing so.…
i think mr werner should maybe think about how to try and solve that problem. maybe if he reached out to bloggers they could help come up with a solution.
i would love to see a photo of werner smiling.
while i agree amazon was way ahead of the game-that is no excuse for not reaching out to new methods and so on.
as amazon increasingly tries to build a developer community around its APIs such as SSS blogs are an obvious mechanism it would make a lot of sense to be more blogalicious. but that’s not a hard count benefit necessarily.
werner could ask claire giordano, at a9, about her experiences with Sun as it built the opensolaris community…
just a couple of thoughts

By: Shel Israel

Shel Israel — Fri, 31 Mar 2006 23:47:44 +0000

Hugh,
I love the cartoon. I also love the dialog it generated. Thanks, Hugh.

By: Mack Collier

Mack Collier — Fri, 31 Mar 2006 23:30:46 +0000

I don’t think the key benefit from blogs for Amazon is selling more books, I think it’s making Amazon a ‘smaller’ company. Blogs are great for large companies because it gives them a natural defense against becoming so large that they lose touch with the individual customer. The individual customer that gets pissed off about his crappy service, then gets on his blog and broadcasts his experiences to the entire internet.
Again, I don’t think the key benefit that blogs provide for most large companies is growing the bottom line, it’s ‘shrinking’ the size of the company.

By: Dennis Howlett

Dennis Howlett — Fri, 31 Mar 2006 22:59:34 +0000

There's lessons for everyone here. I didn't buy the 'rude' thing - heck I'm accused of the same when what 'I' think is I'm being blunt. But I also didn't buy what I 'heard' in Werner's post - 'not made here - f**k off.' It's a bit pointless poking for an answer you already have unless all you're doing is seeking to ridicule someone. I'm sure that's not the intention but it's pretty hard to take that kind of questioning when you're in the cross hairs among a large crowd. Hugh and I have been here before on this ROi thing. I learned, I changed, I prospered as a result. Amazon may be right - for Amazon - but that doesn't negate the value of what Scoble and Shel are doing. Next time around though, if they're not sure of an answer - I'd recommend that good old fallback: "I'll get back to you on that." That IS the correct answer in those corcumstances.

By: hugh macleod

hugh macleod — Fri, 31 Mar 2006 22:57:15 +0000

Yes, Werner, feel free to reuse the drawing =)
Oh, and thanks for stopping by…
Hugh

By: Katherine

Katherine — Fri, 31 Mar 2006 22:36:59 +0000

I’m with Miles. How, exactly, does blogging help Amazon sell more books? Or make more money on the books that they do sell?

By: Miles Barr

Miles Barr — Fri, 31 Mar 2006 22:34:31 +0000

The comments seem mixed. Post 4 is reasonable, post 8 is on a bit of a high horse. I can see why some of them are annoyed. The talk was essentially a sales pitch for the book. It would be a huge coup to say you’ve converted Amazon to the world of blogging, and Shel and Rick do come off as a bit miffed that they didn’t succeed.
Since all the Amazonian comments are anonymous (except for Vogel) I suspect it’s either a corporate policy, or they’re in fear of doing a Mark Jen. I wouldn’t read too much into it.

By: Werner

Werner — Fri, 31 Mar 2006 22:30:23 +0000

ps. can you reuse your drawing without you going all corporate on me and drag me to court?

By: Werner

Werner — Fri, 31 Mar 2006 22:28:50 +0000

Hugh, I perfectly get the value of blogging for a corporation. The point in the discussion was that (I thought) Shel & Robert were not willing to answer that question in a coherent manner, with for example your 4 points. It went downhill after that.
The rudeness part is something strange as that is a new characterisation for me. I don’t believe we were rude to you when you visisted Seth?

By: hugh macleod

hugh macleod — Fri, 31 Mar 2006 22:12:29 +0000

Miles, however reasonable Werner was being or not being, I find the behavior of Amazon’s wage-slave cowards FAR, FAR more telling.
Is that just me?