Comments on: if i owned stormhoek… http://gapingvoid.com/2005/12/14/if-i-owned-stormhoek/ "cartoons drawn on the back of business cards" Fri, 10 Feb 2012 23:17:47 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v= By: Bill Seitz http://gapingvoid.com/2005/12/14/if-i-owned-stormhoek/#comment-8791 Bill Seitz Tue, 20 Dec 2005 04:40:46 +0000 http://gapingvoid.com/?p=1906#comment-8791 Semi-related, I think I'd move from screw-top to fake-cork. Their freshness pitch says "after six or twelve months their nice, fresh, whites were still oxidizing in bottle", but if my SWAG about bottle-life is true, it won't matter. And the screwtop still says CRAP to me, and probably to most people in this market. One counter-idea - make the screw-top the key signifier of the freshness framing. But otherwise, it smells like a big negative. Semi-related, I think I’d move from screw-top to fake-cork. Their freshness pitch says “after six or twelve months their nice, fresh, whites were still oxidizing in bottle”, but if my SWAG about bottle-life is true, it won’t matter.
And the screwtop still says CRAP to me, and probably to most people in this market.
One counter-idea — make the screw-top the key signifier of the freshness framing. But otherwise, it smells like a big negative.

]]> By: Bill Seitz http://gapingvoid.com/2005/12/14/if-i-owned-stormhoek/#comment-8790 Bill Seitz Tue, 20 Dec 2005 04:37:37 +0000 http://gapingvoid.com/?p=1906#comment-8790 I think the whole freshness indicator is totally off-base. Changing colors isn't going to help. I'd guess that 80% of Stormhoek bottles will get drunk within a month of purchase, and 80% of the remaining will get drunk within the year. I would turn it around - people often worry about "gee is this wine not *meant* to be drunk yet?". So I'd frame it in terms of "ready to drink tonight!" or "go ahead, drink it tonight!" (though in a way that makes it sound less like the reader has trembly hands). So you take the guilt/anxiety off of what people want to do anyway. (For background, the Stormhoek freshness explanation is at... <a href="http://www.stormhoek.com/archives/2005/11/news_flash_most_1.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.stormhoek.com/archives/2005/11/news_flash_most_1.php</a> ) I think the whole freshness indicator is totally off-base. Changing colors isn’t going to help.
I’d guess that 80% of Stormhoek bottles will get drunk within a month of purchase, and 80% of the remaining will get drunk within the year.
I would turn it around — people often worry about “gee is this wine not *meant* to be drunk yet?”. So I’d frame it in terms of “ready to drink tonight!” or “go ahead, drink it tonight!” (though in a way that makes it sound less like the reader has trembly hands). So you take the guilt/anxiety off of what people want to do anyway.
(For background, the Stormhoek freshness explanation is at…
http://www.stormhoek.com/archives/2005/11/news_flash_most_1.php
)

]]> By: Doug http://gapingvoid.com/2005/12/14/if-i-owned-stormhoek/#comment-8789 Doug Sun, 18 Dec 2005 11:49:32 +0000 http://gapingvoid.com/?p=1906#comment-8789 I agree, the colors have to go. Here in the USA, green means good, yellow is caution, red is stop: throw that shit out now! But color is too much dependent on culture. Icons are even worse. Calendars at least make sense (100%, 90%, etc?) How can you imply 'best before' without implying "gets worse after"? I agree, the colors have to go. Here in the USA, green means good, yellow is caution, red is stop: throw that shit out now! But color is too much dependent on culture. Icons are even worse. Calendars at least make sense (100%, 90%, etc?)
How can you imply ‘best before’ without implying “gets worse after”?

]]> By: bbm http://gapingvoid.com/2005/12/14/if-i-owned-stormhoek/#comment-8788 bbm Sun, 18 Dec 2005 04:34:33 +0000 http://gapingvoid.com/?p=1906#comment-8788 The colour is important but you should take into account different cultural connotations with the words for colours. e.g. in English, "green" can refer to "unripe" whereas in French "yellow" can have the same connotation. Also, I am not so sure about this "freshness" thing. Most fresh wine is not particularly good, but its freshness is used to reframe the notion, to turn freshness into something positive. So the Beaujolais nouveau mostly has a horribly "green" (ou "jaune") taste. So it becomes a cultural and social event, something that has to be done. It is more than the taste of the wine (because if it was just the taste of the wine, nobody would be interested). I have to confess here to not yet having drunk the bottle of plonk that you sent me, so I don't speak with any authority. However, if you are trying to reframe the "freshness" of Stormhoek (from something that is historically and culturally seen as a negative, to something that can be seen as a positive) then I suggest you are careful about what colours are used. Also, why get too complicated. Just say "ready to drink now because we have completed all the wine-making processes before we bottle/ship the wine". That's my advice, based on the fact that I like an uncomplicated relationship with the wine that I drink. The colour is important but you should take into account different cultural connotations with the words for colours. e.g. in English, “green” can refer to “unripe” whereas in French “yellow” can have the same connotation.
Also, I am not so sure about this “freshness” thing. Most fresh wine is not particularly good, but its freshness is used to reframe the notion, to turn freshness into something positive. So the Beaujolais nouveau mostly has a horribly “green” (ou “jaune”) taste. So it becomes a cultural and social event, something that has to be done. It is more than the taste of the wine (because if it was just the taste of the wine, nobody would be interested).
I have to confess here to not yet having drunk the bottle of plonk that you sent me, so I don’t speak with any authority. However, if you are trying to reframe the “freshness” of Stormhoek (from something that is historically and culturally seen as a negative, to something that can be seen as a positive) then I suggest you are careful about what colours are used. Also, why get too complicated. Just say “ready to drink now because we have completed all the wine-making processes before we bottle/ship the wine”.
That’s my advice, based on the fact that I like an uncomplicated relationship with the wine that I drink.

]]> By: JohnO http://gapingvoid.com/2005/12/14/if-i-owned-stormhoek/#comment-8787 JohnO Fri, 16 Dec 2005 21:47:42 +0000 http://gapingvoid.com/?p=1906#comment-8787 The colors of the freshness indicator make no sense. Visually I would have thought that in 2009, the green, is when the wine would be it's best, because green the background under the text Ultimate Freshness. I know that doesn't make too much sense, why would you put wine on a rack when it won't taste good for four more years :) Just a thought The colors of the freshness indicator make no sense. Visually I would have thought that in 2009, the green, is when the wine would be it’s best, because green the background under the text Ultimate Freshness. I know that doesn’t make too much sense, why would you put wine on a rack when it won’t taste good for four more years :) Just a thought

]]> By: grumpy young woman http://gapingvoid.com/2005/12/14/if-i-owned-stormhoek/#comment-8786 grumpy young woman Fri, 16 Dec 2005 20:32:19 +0000 http://gapingvoid.com/?p=1906#comment-8786 It's the green linking 2009 and 'ultimate freshness' that's confusing... I have to agree that 'best before' is nonsense for wine - makes it sound like it will go off. Blossom Hill has a best before date: enough said. Hmm, I may be odd, but for me wacky/remarkable bottle = dodgy wine. Normal bottle, right price, good informative label = purchase. Good stuff inside = repeat purchase. But I'm probably not an average wine buyer, nor am I your target market... It’s the green linking 2009 and ‘ultimate freshness’ that’s confusing… I have to agree that ‘best before’ is nonsense for wine — makes it sound like it will go off. Blossom Hill has a best before date: enough said.
Hmm, I may be odd, but for me wacky/remarkable bottle = dodgy wine.
Normal bottle, right price, good informative label = purchase.
Good stuff inside = repeat purchase.
But I’m probably not an average wine buyer, nor am I your target market…

]]> By: Antoin O Lachtnain http://gapingvoid.com/2005/12/14/if-i-owned-stormhoek/#comment-8785 Antoin O Lachtnain Fri, 16 Dec 2005 18:54:54 +0000 http://gapingvoid.com/?p=1906#comment-8785 I think the way to make the label clearer is to keep the colours, but put the word 'best' in bold under 2006, 2007 and 2008 and the word 'good' under 2009 in non-bold. That way you - are technically accurate - don't make it look like milk - make it immediately understandable to people who know the colour convention and understandable on examination to people who don't. I would consider swapping the yellow and the green. It's a well understood international convention that green means 'good' or 'go' or 'ok'. There is another slight problem. The casual consumer might not realise that the label refers to the bottle of wine they have in their hands, and that it is not just an example of a label, or referring to something else. To remedy this, I would change the language to something like: 'When to enjoy this bottle of Stormhoek at its best and brightest' But these are minor points. It's basically a very good idea. I think the way to make the label clearer is to keep the colours, but put the word ‘best’ in bold under 2006, 2007 and 2008 and the word ‘good’ under 2009 in non-bold. That way you
– are technically accurate
– don’t make it look like milk
– make it immediately understandable to people who know the colour convention and understandable on examination to people who don’t.
I would consider swapping the yellow and the green. It’s a well understood international convention that green means ‘good’ or ‘go’ or ‘ok’.
There is another slight problem. The casual consumer might not realise that the label refers to the bottle of wine they have in their hands, and that it is not just an example of a label, or referring to something else. To remedy this, I would change the language to something like: ‘When to enjoy this bottle of Stormhoek at its best and brightest’
But these are minor points. It’s basically a very good idea.

]]> By: hugh macleod http://gapingvoid.com/2005/12/14/if-i-owned-stormhoek/#comment-8784 hugh macleod Fri, 16 Dec 2005 18:32:08 +0000 http://gapingvoid.com/?p=1906#comment-8784 I added the colour version of the fresh-o-meter. I think it's easier to understand etc etc. Agree/Disagree? I added the colour version of the fresh-o-meter. I think it’s easier to understand etc etc.
Agree/Disagree?

]]> By: Dr. VIno http://gapingvoid.com/2005/12/14/if-i-owned-stormhoek/#comment-8783 Dr. VIno Thu, 15 Dec 2005 23:22:23 +0000 http://gapingvoid.com/?p=1906#comment-8783 Hugh - I agree, the freshometer does need clarificiation -- looks like it is best to hold for 3 yrs....Avoid any "best before" verbiage since that makes wine look like milk. (yech, milk!) More importantly, the bottle, the label, the marketing all add up to the consumer buying the bottle *once*! If you are looking for repeat customers, what's in the bottle is much more important. My $0.02. Cheers, Tyler Hugh -
I agree, the freshometer does need clarificiation — looks like it is best to hold for 3 yrs.…Avoid any “best before” verbiage since that makes wine look like milk. (yech, milk!)
More importantly, the bottle, the label, the marketing all add up to the consumer buying the bottle *once*! If you are looking for repeat customers, what’s in the bottle is much more important.
My $0.02. Cheers,
Tyler

]]> By: Dave Wheeler http://gapingvoid.com/2005/12/14/if-i-owned-stormhoek/#comment-8782 Dave Wheeler Thu, 15 Dec 2005 18:51:50 +0000 http://gapingvoid.com/?p=1906#comment-8782 I agree with John. An expensive LOOKING bottle is a good idea. A bottle that costs more than the value it provides is not usually a good business proposition. [Of course I'm sure you already knew that but I felt I had to add my two cents.] I do alot of work in the packaging and [inkjet] technology industry and constantly have to remind the engineers that it is the value to the customer that is important, not how much it costs to make. (I also have to remind MYSELF from time to time, which is why I added this comment.) Thanks for sharing your Stormhoek marketing experience with us and keep up the good work! I agree with John. An expensive LOOKING bottle is a good idea. A bottle that costs more than the value it provides is not usually a good business proposition.
[Of course I’m sure you already knew that but I felt I had to add my two cents.]
I do alot of work in the packaging and [inkjet] technology industry and constantly have to remind the engineers that it is the value to the customer that is important, not how much it costs to make. (I also have to remind MYSELF from time to time, which is why I added this comment.)
Thanks for sharing your Stormhoek marketing experience with us and keep up the good work!

]]> By: john http://gapingvoid.com/2005/12/14/if-i-owned-stormhoek/#comment-8781 john Thu, 15 Dec 2005 17:07:25 +0000 http://gapingvoid.com/?p=1906#comment-8781 I'm finding myself aligned with the sceptics now - this started as a "competition" to make the bottle impactful and I think it's getting sidetracked into making the bottle appeal to people who've read the blog and or are in the community. Surely the label and bottle design has to be focussed in attracting the passing trade and thereafter lead them to the story etc. Putting it in an expensive bottle is a bad idea - putting it in a bottle that looks expensive/remarkable is much more to the point. The freshness meter is an interesting thing but the passing punter wont know what the heck it is and as one of your commenters here says - it's message is not unambiguous. As i'm ranting, let me also add that when I went to the blog to read about the fire, I suddenly got the impression that id been wrong all along and that Stormhoek was in fact a New Zealand wine (because New Zealand is the first word one reads) - the story is south african wine made with new zealand technology - not new zealand tachnology exported to south africa. I’m finding myself aligned with the sceptics now — this started as a “competition” to make the bottle impactful and I think it’s getting sidetracked into making the bottle appeal to people who’ve read the blog and or are in the community. Surely the label and bottle design has to be focussed in attracting the passing trade and thereafter lead them to the story etc.
Putting it in an expensive bottle is a bad idea — putting it in a bottle that looks expensive/remarkable is much more to the point.
The freshness meter is an interesting thing but the passing punter wont know what the heck it is and as one of your commenters here says — it’s message is not unambiguous.
As i’m ranting, let me also add that when I went to the blog to read about the fire, I suddenly got the impression that id been wrong all along and that Stormhoek was in fact a New Zealand wine (because New Zealand is the first word one reads) — the story is south african wine made with new zealand technology — not new zealand tachnology exported to south africa.

]]> By: Alex http://gapingvoid.com/2005/12/14/if-i-owned-stormhoek/#comment-8780 Alex Thu, 15 Dec 2005 15:33:20 +0000 http://gapingvoid.com/?p=1906#comment-8780 Hugh, I had posted my suggestion for Stormhoek Label, I guess the pictures did come out in the wiki page. The pics are available in my blogs <a href="http://productmarketingengineer.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow"><a href="http://productmarketingengineer.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://productmarketingengineer.blogspot.com/</a></a> It is ok not to list me in your page. But i think the idea is worth a glance. Hugh,
I had posted my suggestion for Stormhoek Label, I guess the pictures did come out in the wiki page.
The pics are available in my blogs
http://productmarketingengineer.blogspot.com/
It is ok not to list me in your page. But i think the idea is worth a glance.

]]> By: Jason http://gapingvoid.com/2005/12/14/if-i-owned-stormhoek/#comment-8779 Jason Thu, 15 Dec 2005 15:05:32 +0000 http://gapingvoid.com/?p=1906#comment-8779 Okay Hugh, thanks for your input, we all know you don't own the place, but we do march to the beat of your drum. 1) We have all read Seth's recent books. The Cluetrain is what inspired the whole thing-- although just a couple of us have read it-- we'll do something about that. 2) Perhaps you could upload the color coded 'freshometer' (I kinda like the sound of that), it will be easier for people to read and it is as appears on the bottle. (its on the 05 Sauvignon Blanc) 3) Tonyd is dead right. 4) We all pretty much agree with all your other points. 5) How about a pic of you and Robert on the front label? Or would that just be too much shameless pimping? If that is possible? 6) One last thing--- Rather than just telling us what to do, Could you give the folks at Tesco a ring and see if you can get them to buy a few cases? 7) BTW- At the dinner Saturday, we were all really surprised to hear how many people had gone out and bought some Stormhoek after reading about it. Okay Hugh, thanks for your input, we all know you don’t own the place, but we do march to the beat of your drum.
1) We have all read Seth’s recent books. The Cluetrain is what inspired the whole thing– although just a couple of us have read it– we’ll do something about that.
2) Perhaps you could upload the color coded ‘freshometer’ (I kinda like the sound of that), it will be easier for people to read and it is as appears on the bottle. (its on the 05 Sauvignon Blanc)
3) Tonyd is dead right.
4) We all pretty much agree with all your other points.
5) How about a pic of you and Robert on the front label? Or would that just be too much shameless pimping? If that is possible?
6) One last thing— Rather than just telling us what to do, Could you give the folks at Tesco a ring and see if you can get them to buy a few cases?
7) BTW– At the dinner Saturday, we were all really surprised to hear how many people had gone out and bought some Stormhoek after reading about it.

]]> By: AccMan Pro http://gapingvoid.com/2005/12/14/if-i-owned-stormhoek/#comment-8792 AccMan Pro Thu, 15 Dec 2005 12:23:41 +0000 http://gapingvoid.com/?p=1906#comment-8792 <strong>Extreme Marketing</strong> Hugh McLeod is what I would call at the extreme end of marketing. His ideas are at once outrageous, hilarious, offensive and passionate. There are no grey areas with the man. You're either Hughtrain or you're clueless. I've been both (and still can be)... Extreme Marketing

Hugh McLeod is what I would call at the extreme end of marketing. His ideas are at once outrageous, hilarious, offensive and passionate. There are no grey areas with the man. You’re either Hughtrain or you’re clueless. I’ve been both (and still can be)…

]]> By: Dennis Howlett http://gapingvoid.com/2005/12/14/if-i-owned-stormhoek/#comment-8778 Dennis Howlett Thu, 15 Dec 2005 08:37:13 +0000 http://gapingvoid.com/?p=1906#comment-8778 #3 - Seen that Wolf Bass ad on TV. I guess it's falls into the pornobizzo category. #4 - Hmmm - good gimmick but I'm sure most people are not so dumb they don't know they're being pitched. #3 — Seen that Wolf Bass ad on TV. I guess it’s falls into the pornobizzo category.
#4 — Hmmm — good gimmick but I’m sure most people are not so dumb they don’t know they’re being pitched.

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