Comments on: the “under-read through no fault of their own” folk http://gapingvoid.com/2005/08/09/the-under-read-through-no-fault-of-their-own-folk/ "cartoons drawn on the back of business cards" Fri, 10 Feb 2012 23:17:47 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v= By: j's scratchpad http://gapingvoid.com/2005/08/09/the-under-read-through-no-fault-of-their-own-folk/#comment-7333 j's scratchpad Fri, 12 Aug 2005 15:27:57 +0000 http://gapingvoid.com/?p=1682#comment-7333 <strong>Should A-Listers Promote Underlings?</strong> I got a kick out of this gapingvoid post about the role of A-list bloggers in promoting those of us who are not A-listers. Should A-Listers Promote Underlings?

I got a kick out of this gapingvoid post about the role of A-list bloggers in promoting those of us who are not A-listers.

]]> By: Alan Gutierrez http://gapingvoid.com/2005/08/09/the-under-read-through-no-fault-of-their-own-folk/#comment-7332 Alan Gutierrez Wed, 10 Aug 2005 20:55:15 +0000 http://gapingvoid.com/?p=1682#comment-7332 Uh, oh. Never a good sign when Hugh gets pedantic. I'm not at the curly-brace level here, I'm talking a little further up. Google begat blogging. In the pursuit of the Google ranking people went after daily updates, for relevance. Because inbound links mattered, it became important to have things to link to, and thus durable URLs are taken seriously, creating the permalink. In that sense, software did define the structure of the web. When people first got on the web, they treated their web sites like a store front, constantly changing the window dressing. Now people are producing content, and in the context of the content of others. They are creating conversations. Again, not at the curly brace level, but a little higher up. There is going to be a new generation of blogging software that isn't going to beg you to be journalist. It is going to focus on the exchange of links. We spend so much time on our Google ranking, why not simply exchange links directly? Uh, oh. Never a good sign when Hugh gets pedantic.
I’m not at the curly-brace level here, I’m talking a little further up.
Google begat blogging. In the pursuit of the Google ranking people went after daily updates, for relevance. Because inbound links mattered, it became important to have things to link to, and thus durable URLs are taken seriously, creating the permalink.
In that sense, software did define the structure of the web. When people first got on the web, they treated their web sites like a store front, constantly changing the window dressing. Now people are producing content, and in the context of the content of others. They are creating conversations.
Again, not at the curly brace level, but a little higher up. There is going to be a new generation of blogging software that isn’t going to beg you to be journalist. It is going to focus on the exchange of links. We spend so much time on our Google ranking, why not simply exchange links directly?

]]> By: Damien Mulley http://gapingvoid.com/2005/08/09/the-under-read-through-no-fault-of-their-own-folk/#comment-7331 Damien Mulley Wed, 10 Aug 2005 19:47:53 +0000 http://gapingvoid.com/?p=1682#comment-7331 ""If (and it may be a big 'if') people read my blog, I'd rather it was because they found it interesting than because Hugh mentions it. "" And how would they find your blog Ric? ““If (and it may be a big ‘if’) people read my blog, I’d rather it was because they found it interesting than because Hugh mentions it. ““
And how would they find your blog Ric?

]]> By: Ric http://gapingvoid.com/2005/08/09/the-under-read-through-no-fault-of-their-own-folk/#comment-7330 Ric Wed, 10 Aug 2005 18:56:49 +0000 http://gapingvoid.com/?p=1682#comment-7330 Besides, isn't Hugh doing HIS community service with the Hughpage? <a href="http://www.thehughpage.com/Main_Page" rel="nofollow">http://www.thehughpage.com/Main_Page</a> Besides, isn’t Hugh doing HIS community service with the Hughpage?
http://www.thehughpage.com/Main_Page

]]> By: Ric http://gapingvoid.com/2005/08/09/the-under-read-through-no-fault-of-their-own-folk/#comment-7329 Ric Wed, 10 Aug 2005 18:50:26 +0000 http://gapingvoid.com/?p=1682#comment-7329 If (and it may be a big 'if') people read my blog, I'd rather it was because they found it interesting than because Hugh mentions it. And Alan - I agree - we freshmen should stick together! However, there may be some point to the original idea. Not so much that the so-called "A-listers" should do their community service for the poor and down-trodde, but maybe some of them have closed ranks, and have stopped looking for new blogs (so far Hugh is NOT GUILTY, but we're watching ...) If (and it may be a big ‘if’) people read my blog, I’d rather it was because they found it interesting than because Hugh mentions it.
And Alan — I agree — we freshmen should stick together!
However, there may be some point to the original idea. Not so much that the so-called “A-listers” should do their community service for the poor and down-trodde, but maybe some of them have closed ranks, and have stopped looking for new blogs (so far Hugh is NOT GUILTY, but we’re watching …)

]]> By: hugh macleod http://gapingvoid.com/2005/08/09/the-under-read-through-no-fault-of-their-own-folk/#comment-7328 hugh macleod Wed, 10 Aug 2005 18:16:42 +0000 http://gapingvoid.com/?p=1682#comment-7328 Alan Gutierrez, I think you're missing the point: Repeat after me: It's not about the software. It's not about the software. It's not about the software... Alan Gutierrez, I think you’re missing the point:
Repeat after me:
It’s not about the software.
It’s not about the software.
It’s not about the software…

]]> By: Brendon J. Wilson http://gapingvoid.com/2005/08/09/the-under-read-through-no-fault-of-their-own-folk/#comment-7327 Brendon J. Wilson Wed, 10 Aug 2005 15:49:06 +0000 http://gapingvoid.com/?p=1682#comment-7327 Having been at BlogHer, I can speak to what I believe was the real intention behind the furor about the A-List and linking behavior. That conversation, the genesis for this thread, was not concerned with getting A-Listers to link more often to lesser-known bloggers. In the context of that particular conversation (specifically Mary Hodder's suggestion for different metrics to rank blogs), the request I saw being expressed: the desire for the ranking methodologies to be more tailored to the interests of the individual. Right now, one link is the same as another in some aspects - a link reference is counted once - but different in other ways - a link from an A-Lister is counted once, but carries more weight in the ranking algorithm. But what if that weighting varied on the basis of the person doing the searching? If I could tell a web site, "You know, I like *this* set of people/blogs (perhaps signaled by whom I link to on my own blog) - put more weight on sites linked to by the set of people I like when performing my search/creating my Top 100 list". It's intuitive (I like this kind of stuff, give me more), but I'm sure it's horrendously difficult or even impossible to do using today's technology. I mean, it would essentially require a unique ranking of the net for every single user - basically every searcher would need a unique Google index to drive their searches! I'm not clear on whether the results would be that different from that achieved using the current method - after all, the same type of ranking methodology allows Amazon to recommend books pretty well simply based on the past purchases I have in common with other customers - would it really be that different if they only made recommendations based on people whose recommendations I'd liked in the past? Would it be any better? Having been at BlogHer, I can speak to what I believe was the real intention behind the furor about the A-List and linking behavior. That conversation, the genesis for this thread, was not concerned with getting A-Listers to link more often to lesser-known bloggers.
In the context of that particular conversation (specifically Mary Hodder’s suggestion for different metrics to rank blogs), the request I saw being expressed: the desire for the ranking methodologies to be more tailored to the interests of the individual.
Right now, one link is the same as another in some aspects — a link reference is counted once — but different in other ways — a link from an A-Lister is counted once, but carries more weight in the ranking algorithm. But what if that weighting varied on the basis of the person doing the searching? If I could tell a web site, “You know, I like *this* set of people/blogs (perhaps signaled by whom I link to on my own blog) — put more weight on sites linked to by the set of people I like when performing my search/creating my Top 100 list”.
It’s intuitive (I like this kind of stuff, give me more), but I’m sure it’s horrendously difficult or even impossible to do using today’s technology. I mean, it would essentially require a unique ranking of the net for every single user — basically every searcher would need a unique Google index to drive their searches!
I’m not clear on whether the results would be that different from that achieved using the current method — after all, the same type of ranking methodology allows Amazon to recommend books pretty well simply based on the past purchases I have in common with other customers — would it really be that different if they only made recommendations based on people whose recommendations I’d liked in the past? Would it be any better?

]]> By: Alan Gutierrez http://gapingvoid.com/2005/08/09/the-under-read-through-no-fault-of-their-own-folk/#comment-7326 Alan Gutierrez Wed, 10 Aug 2005 08:38:00 +0000 http://gapingvoid.com/?p=1682#comment-7326 I've said before, there's always a freshman class of bloggers, and we should stick together, get through this together, rather than try and sit at the senior's lunch table. If you want a social network, build one on your own. It's not what the A-listers can do for you, it's what we can do for each other. Besides, the blog is on it's way out as a medium for the masses. There needs to be a micro-content management system for the rest of us, those that have to much to do than to keep up with the 24-hour meme cycle. The A-list. After you're done talking about it, you'll all realize that daily posts are not a universal model. And then you'll realize you shouldn't leave your reachability to the whims of Google. New software on the way. I’ve said before, there’s always a freshman class of bloggers, and we should stick together, get through this together, rather than try and sit at the senior’s lunch table.
If you want a social network, build one on your own. It’s not what the A-listers can do for you, it’s what we can do for each other.
Besides, the blog is on it’s way out as a medium for the masses. There needs to be a micro-content management system for the rest of us, those that have to much to do than to keep up with the 24-hour meme cycle.
The A-list. After you’re done talking about it, you’ll all realize that daily posts are not a universal model. And then you’ll realize you shouldn’t leave your reachability to the whims of Google.
New software on the way.

]]> By: zephoria http://gapingvoid.com/2005/08/09/the-under-read-through-no-fault-of-their-own-folk/#comment-7325 zephoria Wed, 10 Aug 2005 05:50:54 +0000 http://gapingvoid.com/?p=1682#comment-7325 Peter - i'm talking about actual social networks as studied by anthropologists and sociologists, not the articulated kinds available on services like Orkut and Friendster. There are a lot of reasons that the structures of the latter are not the same as maintained in everyday life. Also, you will find that women get more network requests than men in most articulated systems because people want to be linked to women, regardless of the sex of the linker. In the case of Orkut, you will find many men who only link to women. Peter — i’m talking about actual social networks as studied by anthropologists and sociologists, not the articulated kinds available on services like Orkut and Friendster. There are a lot of reasons that the structures of the latter are not the same as maintained in everyday life. Also, you will find that women get more network requests than men in most articulated systems because people want to be linked to women, regardless of the sex of the linker. In the case of Orkut, you will find many men who only link to women.

]]> By: Jason Richardson http://gapingvoid.com/2005/08/09/the-under-read-through-no-fault-of-their-own-folk/#comment-7324 Jason Richardson Wed, 10 Aug 2005 05:13:49 +0000 http://gapingvoid.com/?p=1682#comment-7324 I think this was the plot of "Atlas Shrugged," was it not? Ayn Rand was certainly heavy-handed, but unfortunately she was more astute a student of human nature than I wish she'd been. It's not the role of the successful to help the unsuccessful join the club. Sink or swim, people. I think this was the plot of “Atlas Shrugged,” was it not?
Ayn Rand was certainly heavy-handed, but unfortunately she was more astute a student of human nature than I wish she’d been.
It’s not the role of the successful to help the unsuccessful join the club. Sink or swim, people.

]]> By: Michael Martine http://gapingvoid.com/2005/08/09/the-under-read-through-no-fault-of-their-own-folk/#comment-7323 Michael Martine Wed, 10 Aug 2005 05:03:49 +0000 http://gapingvoid.com/?p=1682#comment-7323 Wow. What a can of blogworms this opened! Everybody wants to easily get or buy that which can only be earned and is only worth anything when it is earned. Some of the old-skool rules will always be true: rule #1: THERE'S A SUCKER BORN EVERY MINUTE. rule #2: NO FREE LUNCHES, DAMMIT. Wow. What a can of blogworms this opened! Everybody wants to easily get or buy that which can only be earned and is only worth anything when it is earned. Some of the old-skool rules will always be true: rule #1: THERE’S A SUCKER BORN EVERY MINUTE.
rule #2: NO FREE LUNCHES, DAMMIT.

]]> By: hugh macleod http://gapingvoid.com/2005/08/09/the-under-read-through-no-fault-of-their-own-folk/#comment-7322 hugh macleod Wed, 10 Aug 2005 04:27:48 +0000 http://gapingvoid.com/?p=1682#comment-7322 PS: "Was it affirmative action when Adrants put your ad on their site?" No, Damien, it was a cash deal ;-) PS:
“Was it affirmative action when Adrants put your ad on their site?“
No, Damien, it was a cash deal ;-)

]]> By: the head lemur http://gapingvoid.com/2005/08/09/the-under-read-through-no-fault-of-their-own-folk/#comment-7321 the head lemur Wed, 10 Aug 2005 02:49:46 +0000 http://gapingvoid.com/?p=1682#comment-7321 <a href="http://theheadlemur.typepad.com/ravinglunacy/2005/08/my_links_are_mi.html" rel="nofollow">http://theheadlemur.typepad.com/ravinglunacy/2005/08/my_links_are_mi.html</a> http://theheadlemur.typepad.com/ravinglunacy/2005/08/my_links_are_mi.html

]]> By: the head lemur http://gapingvoid.com/2005/08/09/the-under-read-through-no-fault-of-their-own-folk/#comment-7320 the head lemur Wed, 10 Aug 2005 02:46:22 +0000 http://gapingvoid.com/?p=1682#comment-7320 Ya it's a bad idea. The primary reason is the guilt card. --------------------------------------------- "For only 20 characters a day, you can bring a under-read blogger to lunch at the big kids table." "For less typing than you spend writing your blog, you can lift a obscure downtrodden blogger into the sunshine of the A-List." "Jesus loves You" --------------------------------------------- If that appeal doesn't work perhaps this will help. Top TEN Reasons to Keep the Downtrodden in their Place. 10. The infection they got from piercing their toungue, requires Medical Attention. 9.You can't get the ingredients for Cat Stuffed with Wild Rice and Sea Snails at Wal Mart. 8.There is a reason they live on the south side of the tracks. 7.Demonstrating Inbreeding is not news. 6.'Angst' is not a lifestyle 5.Their children really look like monkeys. 4.Of course Jimmy wants to touch your tits. 3.No Pussy, No linky 2.spelin is optinall 1.The downtrodden give us a place to rest our feet when we post. <a href="http://theheadlemur.typepad.com/ravinglunacy/2005/08/my_links_are_mi.html" rel="nofollow"><a href="http://theheadlemur.typepad.com/ravinglunacy/2005/08/my_links_are_mi.html" rel="nofollow">http://theheadlemur.typepad.com/ravinglunacy/2005/08/my_links_are_mi.html</a></a> Ya it’s a bad idea.
The primary reason is the guilt card.
———————————————
“For only 20 characters a day, you can bring a under-read blogger to lunch at the big kids table.“
“For less typing than you spend writing your blog, you can lift a obscure downtrodden blogger into the sunshine of the A-List.“
“Jesus loves You“
———————————————
If that appeal doesn’t work perhaps this will help.
Top TEN Reasons to Keep the Downtrodden in their Place.
10. The infection they got from piercing their toungue, requires Medical Attention.
9.You can’t get the ingredients for Cat Stuffed with Wild Rice and Sea Snails at Wal Mart.
8.There is a reason they live on the south side of the tracks.
7.Demonstrating Inbreeding is not news.
6.‘Angst’ is not a lifestyle
5.Their children really look like monkeys.
4.Of course Jimmy wants to touch your tits.
3.No Pussy, No linky
2.spelin is optinall
1.The downtrodden give us a place to rest our feet when we post.
http://theheadlemur.typepad.com/ravinglunacy/2005/08/my_links_are_mi.html

]]> By: john t unger http://gapingvoid.com/2005/08/09/the-under-read-through-no-fault-of-their-own-folk/#comment-7319 john t unger Wed, 10 Aug 2005 01:37:48 +0000 http://gapingvoid.com/?p=1682#comment-7319 It's easy for the obscure to get frustrated when they feel a sense of entitlement... Long ago, I was trying to make it in this world as a poet (of all things). I remember countless conversations with other poets, most of whom were in fact quite good, in which we bitched all night about our inability to get anywhere without connections. It seemed you had to "know somebody" to get anywhere, and we hated that. Then I grew up. And realized that it was pretty easy to "know somebody." All you really gotta do is introduce yourself intelligently. It helps if you're doing something interesting... My experience has been that if you *are* doing something interesting, and introduce it to an A-lister who covers that area, there's a good chance they will blog it. For instance, Hugh blogged a project of mine back in February (http://www.gapingvoid.com/Moveable_Type/archives/001359.html). The project has since moved to a new URL: <a href="http://johntunger.typepad.com/studio/" rel="nofollow">http://johntunger.typepad.com/studio/</a> but it's doing well, and getting picked up occasionally all over the blogosphere. Is it an A-list blog? Hell no, it's a dinky little thing and doesn't even get updated all that frequently. But it's been linked or reviewed on all but a couple of the A-list blogs I read. Why? Context, conversation, introductions, etc. If you make your small blog relevant to the big cats, they'll sniff it. If they like the way it smells, they just might link it. But complaining about the unfairness of it all ain't making anyone sexy. It’s easy for the obscure to get frustrated when they feel a sense of entitlement… Long ago, I was trying to make it in this world as a poet (of all things). I remember countless conversations with other poets, most of whom were in fact quite good, in which we bitched all night about our inability to get anywhere without connections. It seemed you had to “know somebody” to get anywhere, and we hated that.
Then I grew up. And realized that it was pretty easy to “know somebody.” All you really gotta do is introduce yourself intelligently. It helps if you’re doing something interesting… My experience has been that if you *are* doing something interesting, and introduce it to an A-lister who covers that area, there’s a good chance they will blog it.
For instance, Hugh blogged a project of mine back in February (http://www.gapingvoid.com/Moveable_Type/archives/001359.html).
The project has since moved to a new URL: http://johntunger.typepad.com/studio/ but it’s doing well, and getting picked up occasionally all over the blogosphere.
Is it an A-list blog? Hell no, it’s a dinky little thing and doesn’t even get updated all that frequently. But it’s been linked or reviewed on all but a couple of the A-list blogs I read. Why? Context, conversation, introductions, etc.
If you make your small blog relevant to the big cats, they’ll sniff it. If they like the way it smells, they just might link it. But complaining about the unfairness of it all ain’t making anyone sexy.

]]>