Comments on: prime tags? http://gapingvoid.com/2005/06/27/prime-tags/ "cartoons drawn on the back of business cards" Sat, 21 Nov 2009 22:18:51 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=abc hourly 1 By: Chuck Turnitsa http://gapingvoid.com/2005/06/27/prime-tags/comment-page-1/#comment-6624 Chuck Turnitsa Fri, 01 Jul 2005 12:28:25 +0000 http://gapingvoid.com/?p=1575#comment-6624 I think that if you consider a formal taxonomy, you'll have your idea of prime tags. In fact, it's one of the ways that Tim Berners-Lee intended digital marking (tags) to be used, I believe, when he wrote his original article on the Semantic Web. An ontology is a superset of a taxonomy (taxonomy is the heirarchical, object oriented view of knowledge categories - your prime tags, especially if you leave off several layers of leaf nodes). A taxonomy becomes a knowledge representation only when each level of it's heirarchy is filled with many enumerations of data. If you just take the taxonomy (and as I suggested, cut off several layers of leaf nodes), then you have basically a nice tree structure of prime tags. It could work, you know . . . Chuck I think that if you consider a formal taxonomy, you’ll have your idea of prime tags. In fact, it’s one of the ways that Tim Berners-Lee intended digital marking (tags) to be used, I believe, when he wrote his original article on the Semantic Web.
An ontology is a superset of a taxonomy (taxonomy is the heirarchical, object oriented view of knowledge categories — your prime tags, especially if you leave off several layers of leaf nodes). A taxonomy becomes a knowledge representation only when each level of it’s heirarchy is filled with many enumerations of data. If you just take the taxonomy (and as I suggested, cut off several layers of leaf nodes), then you have basically a nice tree structure of prime tags.
It could work, you know …
Chuck

]]> By: Jackson Miller http://gapingvoid.com/2005/06/27/prime-tags/comment-page-1/#comment-6627 Jackson Miller Wed, 29 Jun 2005 21:39:22 +0000 http://gapingvoid.com/?p=1575#comment-6627 <strong>More Generic Tags Please</strong> Hugh has a post on gapingvoid that describes a really good way to make tags more useful for browsing and searching for information. Basically, instead of a single tag it is better to use multiple generic tags. I agree with what he is saying and want to More Generic Tags Please

Hugh has a post on gapingvoid that describes a really good way to make tags more useful for browsing and searching for information. Basically, instead of a single tag it is better to use multiple generic tags. I agree with what he is saying and want to

]]> By: Marty http://gapingvoid.com/2005/06/27/prime-tags/comment-page-1/#comment-6623 Marty Wed, 29 Jun 2005 04:23:16 +0000 http://gapingvoid.com/?p=1575#comment-6623 Learning which properties or tags act as good identifiers is big in machine learning, and has several algorithms. Finding the 'prime tags' for some finite group of items is a matter of finding which tag most effectively splits the overall group into smaller subgroups, recursively, until you are left with unique results. Decision trees are a popular type of machine learning classifier and are an excellent example of this technique. Learning which properties or tags act as good identifiers is big in machine learning, and has several algorithms. Finding the ‘prime tags’ for some finite group of items is a matter of finding which tag most effectively splits the overall group into smaller subgroups, recursively, until you are left with unique results. Decision trees are a popular type of machine learning classifier and are an excellent example of this technique.

]]> By: hugh http://gapingvoid.com/2005/06/27/prime-tags/comment-page-1/#comment-6622 hugh Wed, 29 Jun 2005 03:16:28 +0000 http://gapingvoid.com/?p=1575#comment-6622 [NOTE TO SELF:] Stick to cartooning. This is so out of your league... [NOTE TO SELF:] Stick to cartooning. This is so out of your league…

]]> By: toby http://gapingvoid.com/2005/06/27/prime-tags/comment-page-1/#comment-6621 toby Wed, 29 Jun 2005 02:32:47 +0000 http://gapingvoid.com/?p=1575#comment-6621 It seems to me that an interesting solution would be to take the way people are tagging things and algorithmically determine the optimal set of tags. The only algorithms I've seen run on folksonomies so far have been simple co-occurence metrics, which tell you "related" tags. I have a couple of ideas of how individual tags can be aggregated, which I'm trying out. I'll keep you posted. It seems to me that an interesting solution would be to take the way people are tagging things and algorithmically determine the optimal set of tags.
The only algorithms I’ve seen run on folksonomies so far have been simple co-occurence metrics, which tell you “related” tags. I have a couple of ideas of how individual tags can be aggregated, which I’m trying out. I’ll keep you posted.

]]> By: Jeff Zugale http://gapingvoid.com/2005/06/27/prime-tags/comment-page-1/#comment-6620 Jeff Zugale Wed, 29 Jun 2005 02:07:22 +0000 http://gapingvoid.com/?p=1575#comment-6620 As far as I know, my name is a prime tag, because as far as I can tell, I'm the only person on earth who has my name, or has ever had it. My last name is pretty rare, I know almost everyone who has it in the US, and there are very few in Europe from what I can gather. So there can be simple prime tags that are unique identifiers. As far as I know, my name is a prime tag, because as far as I can tell, I’m the only person on earth who has my name, or has ever had it. My last name is pretty rare, I know almost everyone who has it in the US, and there are very few in Europe from what I can gather.
So there can be simple prime tags that are unique identifiers.

]]> By: Matt http://gapingvoid.com/2005/06/27/prime-tags/comment-page-1/#comment-6619 Matt Wed, 29 Jun 2005 02:01:54 +0000 http://gapingvoid.com/?p=1575#comment-6619 William's idea of creating classes of tags might be called a tagsonomy. :-) There are techniques for automatically gleaning "concepts" from a textual document that have been in use for quite some time by knowledge management software. The idea is to avoid requiring people to add their own tags. It has been a while since I followed the market, so all of the company names I used to know have disappeared in the Great Popping of the dot com Bubble, but Intellisophic has something like what I'm talking about: <a href="http://www.intellisophic.com/content.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.intellisophic.com/content.php</a> Fascinating stuff. William’s idea of creating classes of tags might be called a tagsonomy. :-)
There are techniques for automatically gleaning “concepts” from a textual document that have been in use for quite some time by knowledge management software. The idea is to avoid requiring people to add their own tags. It has been a while since I followed the market, so all of the company names I used to know have disappeared in the Great Popping of the dot com Bubble, but Intellisophic has something like what I’m talking about:
http://www.intellisophic.com/content.php
Fascinating stuff.

]]> By: ForwardMarkets http://gapingvoid.com/2005/06/27/prime-tags/comment-page-1/#comment-6626 ForwardMarkets Wed, 29 Jun 2005 01:01:01 +0000 http://gapingvoid.com/?p=1575#comment-6626 <strong>Personal Ontologies</strong> Whew! Personal Ontologies

Whew!

]]> By: hugh macleod http://gapingvoid.com/2005/06/27/prime-tags/comment-page-1/#comment-6618 hugh macleod Wed, 29 Jun 2005 00:31:46 +0000 http://gapingvoid.com/?p=1575#comment-6618 William, nobody's saying the number of tags should be limited to a certain number. Sig's point was how surprisingly few are needed in order to handle large amounts of information. And the tags will be created from the bottom-up, not the top-down, I'm guessing. William, nobody’s saying the number of tags should be limited to a certain number. Sig’s point was how surprisingly few are needed in order to handle large amounts of information.
And the tags will be created from the bottom-up, not the top-down, I’m guessing.

]]> By: Wiliam http://gapingvoid.com/2005/06/27/prime-tags/comment-page-1/#comment-6617 Wiliam Wed, 29 Jun 2005 00:26:59 +0000 http://gapingvoid.com/?p=1575#comment-6617 The more I think about it, the less I think trying to limit the number of tags is going to work. Whatever set you come up with, there will always that one situation where yet-another-tag is going to be required. I'm thinking a better approach might be to create classes of tags. (E.g. color: red-green-blue, genre: humor-drama-scifi, etc.) This would increase the ability to identify like things as they would tend to use tags from the same set of classes. For instance, something referencing a person would use tags that describe hair color (blond), ethnicity (Hispanic), and so on. The more I think about it, the less I think trying to limit the number of tags is going to work. Whatever set you come up with, there will always that one situation where yet-another-tag is going to be required. I’m thinking a better approach might be to create classes of tags. (E.g. color: red-green-blue, genre: humor-drama-scifi, etc.) This would increase the ability to identify like things as they would tend to use tags from the same set of classes. For instance, something referencing a person would use tags that describe hair color (blond), ethnicity (Hispanic), and so on.

]]> By: Sarah B http://gapingvoid.com/2005/06/27/prime-tags/comment-page-1/#comment-6616 Sarah B Wed, 29 Jun 2005 00:13:30 +0000 http://gapingvoid.com/?p=1575#comment-6616 There are an infinite number of prime numbers, of course, which is a reassuring thought when making the analogy between tags for information and these numerical building blocks (that even though information is categorised, it is not limited to finite categories). There are an infinite number of prime numbers, of course, which is a reassuring thought when making the analogy between tags for information and these numerical building blocks (that even though information is categorised, it is not limited to finite categories).

]]> By: sig http://gapingvoid.com/2005/06/27/prime-tags/comment-page-1/#comment-6615 sig Tue, 28 Jun 2005 23:21:42 +0000 http://gapingvoid.com/?p=1575#comment-6615 Ric, will follow your suggestion, Junior promises that you (and everybody else) shall be able to add tags to any post and comment (but not deduct of course) in the 'experiment'... in next version... soon (see geek definition of 'soon') :-) That'll enable the pathway development nicely, perhaps... Ric, will follow your suggestion, Junior promises that you (and everybody else) shall be able to add tags to any post and comment (but not deduct of course) in the ‘experiment’… in next version… soon (see geek definition of ‘soon’) :-)
That’ll enable the pathway development nicely, perhaps…

]]> By: Ric http://gapingvoid.com/2005/06/27/prime-tags/comment-page-1/#comment-6614 Ric Tue, 28 Jun 2005 21:12:00 +0000 http://gapingvoid.com/?p=1575#comment-6614 That Clay Shirky article reminded me of the 'pathway problem' - where do you put a pathway across a park? If you build the path first, it's like a hierarchical categorisation - in Clay's words the 'Yahoo' approach. If you let the people use the park without pathways, they will create them for you - more the 'Google' approach, or del.icio.us tags where the 'pathways' to information will be formed by people tagging links. That Clay Shirky article reminded me of the ‘pathway problem’ — where do you put a pathway across a park? If you build the path first, it’s like a hierarchical categorisation — in Clay’s words the ‘Yahoo’ approach. If you let the people use the park without pathways, they will create them for you — more the ‘Google’ approach, or del.icio.us tags where the ‘pathways’ to information will be formed by people tagging links.

]]> By: Jorn Barger http://gapingvoid.com/2005/06/27/prime-tags/comment-page-1/#comment-6613 Jorn Barger Tue, 28 Jun 2005 19:04:01 +0000 http://gapingvoid.com/?p=1575#comment-6613 Sean McGrath recently posted on "semantic primes" (click my name for the link). If you Google "fractal thicket" you'll find my approach to breaking down 'composite' semantics into basic concepts like person-place-thing. A Flickr pic with two people and a pizza could be tagged "person1 person2 thing1" for starters... Sean McGrath recently posted on “semantic primes” (click my name for the link).
If you Google “fractal thicket” you’ll find my approach to breaking down ‘composite’ semantics into basic concepts like person-place-thing.
A Flickr pic with two people and a pizza could be tagged “person1 person2 thing1” for starters…

]]> By: Alex http://gapingvoid.com/2005/06/27/prime-tags/comment-page-1/#comment-6612 Alex Tue, 28 Jun 2005 18:28:47 +0000 http://gapingvoid.com/?p=1575#comment-6612 Hugh your ability to pick labels for ideas that are both provocative and meaningful is truly impressive. That is a real skill... and 'Prime Tags' is an excellent example. Hugh your ability to pick labels for ideas that are both provocative and meaningful is truly impressive.
That is a real skill… and ‘Prime Tags’ is an excellent example.

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