Comments on: “the market for something to complain about is infinite”

By: Dave

Dave — Sun, 17 Apr 2005 04:54:17 +0000

I used to visit gapingvoid more often, but then it became one big advertisement for English Cut.
The “conversation” got boring because you always talk about the same thing.
Less talk about English Cut, and more talk about Hughtrain kinda stuff.
Thanks

By: Patrick

Patrick — Sat, 16 Apr 2005 22:18:15 +0000

What’s next is that enough people get it that we aren’t having to tell big slow companies about it, and the whole mechanism is working better, better, best at giving people what they want when they want it where they want it, whether it is media, manufactured, new or used.

By: Timbo

Timbo — Sat, 16 Apr 2005 08:48:07 +0000

John T: Yes, “better choices” is fine, as long as I don’t spend so much time figuring out which ones fit that description that I lose the chance to enjoy them.
“The Invisible Hand writes in cursive…You can’t see it if your life is the nib.“
Damn, that’s good.
“Markets are relationships.“
Hmmm. That sounds pre-Cluetrain, when everything was about “relationship marketing”. Remember “1–2-1″ and all that stuff?

By: john t unger

john t unger — Sat, 16 Apr 2005 07:33:12 +0000

Okay, I still don't know how to link in the comments after all. What I meant to say was: "The place to start is: http://johntunger.typepad.com/artbuzz/2005/03/welcome_to_artb.html

By: john t unger

john t unger — Sat, 16 Apr 2005 07:30:04 +0000

Thom: I hate to break this to you, but design is among the most heavily commodified markets out there... Designers may deny this, of course, but in the end they need to eat like everyone else. When we do something with no regard for market forces, well, then, that's "art." I do both, sometimes for the same project. Honestly, I really see nothing wrong with commodities, so long as they are interesting, well made, well designed and don't exceed an appropriate level of ubiquity. I mean, I still have no urge to kick someone just 'cause they're listening to an ipod, you know? People that drive HumVees, on the other hand... Bespoke should be about collaboration, yes. But the client's "personal requirements" are part of that collaboration. Projects begin when someone sees and likes my work. Then we work together to figure out what they want, which is very much a dialogue. In fact, that's often the longest part of the process. In this relationship, my job is often to help them express what they can't quite articulate themselves -- very much like what you describe at the end of your comment. I need to be able to mediate between what's physically practical (engineering) and the deep inchoate longing buried somewhere in the client's heart. Then again, sometimes they actually know exactly what they want. And sometimes they just turn me loose, because the trust thing is working and they know that they will like whatever comes out. "companies should be obsessed with customer SUCCESS and not just customer SERVICE." Yes. Absolutely! Just like Kathy Sierra's "I Rule" experience. I also think that it can be very rearding for everyone to get the client involved in the process and not just the end result. I find that much of my best work has been the stuff that had the highest collaboration factor. And, when finished, it also is usually the stuff that has the most personal relationship to the buyer. I'm also exploring a new model of affiliate involvement over at my ArtBuzz blog. Hugh posted about it earlier, but it's evolved somewhat since the early version and I'd love some feedback from any of you if you have a moment to check it out. The place to start is here.

By: john t unger

john t unger — Sat, 16 Apr 2005 06:29:23 +0000

Alan: Yes, Fab Labs, exactly. I *so* want one delivered to my shop, like stat. heh. Also e-machineshop.com, etc. I’ve posted links to a few such resources over at my own blog. I didn’t realize I could hot-link in the comments here…
Software looking like jazz: Beautiful! Can I quote you on that endlessly? I think, really, it already does.
Patents I’ll have to get back to you on. I have issues from here to the moon with the current state of copyright and IP law, but I just applied for a provisional patent last week. There are some things I make that I’m totally not worried about patenting… They’re so long tail that I should be able to fill the niche and move on before anyone tries to scoop me. There are other things I wouldn’t mind having a bit of a head start on. And then yet other things that are good ideas, but not my bag, which I’ll most likely give away just so *someone* can make them.
Relationships: Definitely. The thing that’s less obvious for some is that you just need to introduce yourself sometimes, in order to know people. If you’re doing everything else right, trust should follow naturally.

By: john t unger

john t unger — Sat, 16 Apr 2005 06:17:23 +0000

Wow. This *is* a nice thread, eh?
Timbo: Well, do we need fewer choices, more choices or better choices? I think it’s really context dependent. And maybe, no pun intended, a matter of personal choice.
Being able to style a commodity, appliance, or product to fit the exact vision you have for your life will certainly appeal to many. The ability to tailor things exactly to your own lifestyle, workflow, idiosyncrasies etc is likely to be what really drives the long tail. I figure a good example is the way Firefox released a stripped down and highly functional browser, then allowed *anyone* to write and distribute plugins to modify its behavior on any level… I love tabbed browsing, but hated the fact that I couldn’t drag the tabs to reorganize the order of pages. Hey, there’s a plug-in for that! If it’s happening in software, it will happen in hardware too. It already is.
As far as fewer choices goes, yes, certainly filters will be a big part of the marketplace and blogs will be one of those filtration mechanisms, just as google is, or IMDB. Already, I’m quite accustomed to filtering all my news intake through trusted sources who post on specific areas of interest. Your grocery store metaphor is a good one… Yeah, I would love to go to a store that just has one good simple choice for everything, but *my* idea of that store is not going to be the same as *your* idea of that store… Mine would have no seafood for example. ever.
Hence, better choices. Two good models here would be amazon, whose recommendations to me are generally on target (I know because they keep suggesting stuff I already have), and Zingerman’s, who offer many choices but only the finest ones. If you can be pretty sure that *any* of the 56 kinds of olive oil are equally good, if different, then it doesn’t matter so much which one you grab, right? On the other hand if you feel like learning more, experimenting, or being entertained you might happily spend 20 minutes taste-testing, reading labels, talking to educated store clerks and so on.
I think “better choices,” like Hugh’s “better conversations,” is the way to go. In fact, maybe “better choices” is what we should call the next thing, eh?

By: jbr

jbr — Sat, 16 Apr 2005 05:26:15 +0000

but, Doc, a suit by Thomas will accentuate your form and highlight your strengths/assets. people will see “you” and not a body form. they will see the intelligence, the wit…your very essence.
that’s what a suit by Thomas will do for you…
by the way, likely a frequent dumb question to you.…any plans for a Cluetrain part deux? sort of a “let’s check in on the world and determine progress”? it would be an interesting post.

By: Alan Gutierrez

Alan Gutierrez — Sat, 16 Apr 2005 03:17:27 +0000

Doc: Absolutely. It’s all about relationships. Hugh has the it’s not about Who You Know, It’s Who Trusts You cartoon, which has become my mantra.
I think, too, that everyone is a futures market. That we’ll get paid for what we will do, not what we’ve done.

By: Doc Searls

Doc Searls — Sat, 16 Apr 2005 03:10:13 +0000

I’ve been asking “what’s next” for the last six years. The next thing always comes up, along with the last thing. Like some of you say, it’s an evolutionary thing. Circular, sort of. The Invisible Hand writes in cursive. Also in cartoons. You can’t see it if your life is the nib.
By the way, the next step after Cluetrain, IMHO, is Markets are Relationships. Of course, Hugh/Thomas/TheRestofUs are already there, no?
When I stop being fat, I want one of those suits.

By: Alan Gutierrez

Alan Gutierrez — Sat, 16 Apr 2005 03:05:31 +0000

Thom L: I see Bespoke Everything as not as commoditization of design, rather a matter of routing design. People who make the parts are going to be evolving a base of code. It is about collaboration. Software is going to start to look like Jazz.

By: Thom Lawrence

Thom Lawrence — Sat, 16 Apr 2005 02:33:19 +0000

John T: you make it sound like Bespoke Everything would mean the commoditization of design. I’d love to think that ‘bespoke’ is more about collaboration than it is about listing my own personal requirements.
Tom Peters says companies should be obsessed with customer SUCCESS and not just customer SERVICE. I want to see the new breed of Bespoke Everything companies taking my ideas and setting their crafts-people free on them. Give me the product I was _imagining_ not the one I was just fumbling around trying to _describe_.

By: Alan Gutierrez

Alan Gutierrez — Sat, 16 Apr 2005 02:24:05 +0000

I think is is a mixture of bespoke and the long tail. We we all be able to assemble new objects tailored to our needs. The component parts will be captured in software (for toasters in CAD/CAM diagrams). Some folks tailor and fit. Others conjure up new components.
Nothing quite like it yet. Open source software is close, but still not atomic enough. The new model for software is the bespoke and long tail programmer.
A long tail programmer makes a small part to do a single task. Google routes part to the application where it falls into place with a happy snap. The bespoke programmer is the one calling together the parts to create software to tailored to fit the individual.
It spills into manufacturing eventually.

By: Alan Gutierrez

Alan Gutierrez — Sat, 16 Apr 2005 02:15:05 +0000

John T. Have you heard of Fab Labs?
Bespoke everything, yes.
Design your own toaster, yes.
Patents are the evil that stands in our way.

By: Alan Gutierrez

Alan Gutierrez — Sat, 16 Apr 2005 02:11:02 +0000

Timbo: Few choices. Witness Sam’s Club. One choice for frozen orange juice. Cheaper than any grocery store. It’s a commodity anyway. I’m learning to dislike Kroger with it’s cards, cupons, and sales. You’re in the grocery business. Give me the lowest price for the best orange juice.
Also, with Craig’s List, I think we’re going to buy more durable goods. Why buy a new exercise bike? You know someone is giving up on an exercise bike, buy it of Craig’s List. Then sell it when you are sick of it. The path from factory to landfill will no longer be so direct.
If I’m buying off Craig’s List, I’ll look for something durable. Now we’re looking at durability and resale value of more than just automobiles. If the materials we purchase retain value, we shop for maximum retention of value.
English Cut is riding that wave.